Wednesday, January 23, 2008

How can I resist such an easy target: the IE version switch

I have had a lot of shit going on, and haven't really posted anywhere near as much as I would like. But seeing the IE team blow away their own record on pure fucking stupidity, with the help of people who know better... Fuck, Chris Wilson even wrote:
With this painful and unexpected lesson under our belt, we worked together with The Web Standards Project (in the WaSP-Microsoft Task Force) on this problem. I can’t give them enough credit for this work; it’s tough to step into the shoes of a browser vendor that ships to half a billion users to figure out what the best thing to do is, when you really just want to sit down and write code to the standards.
That seems painfully close to We really want to write a standards-compliant browser, if only those meanies in the Web Standards Project would let us!

This proves to me that not only did Microsoft come up with a phenomenally badly designed proposal for IE8, but they fucking know it and try to push the blame onto the very people trying to get them to stop this shit in the first place!

For those who haven't seen this latest round of the "how can we fuck developers and users even more" game, go read the A List Apart article that started it all. I don't want to have to explain that shit to you before I continue ranting about it, so seriously: read it.

Jeremy Keith put it quite well when he found himself writing Unless you explicitly declare that you want IE8 to behave as IE8, it will behave as IE7. This proposal for the meta tag version switch flies in the face of common sense and then cock-slaps it for good measure. With it, Microsoft fucking requires that you programatically declare your site compatible with a specific IE version. This brings back the "Best viewed in IE4" fuckery remembered not very fondly by developers from the Netscape/IE wars years ago, but fucking enforces it. If you don't want to add the meta tag, you will never see IE support web standards any better than IE7. EVER.

If Microsoft gets away with this, they will get away with shitting all over web standards efforts and pissing in the face of the W3C. IE will require its own doctype, in a sense, in order to allow sites to use web standards.

One of the saddest aspects of this bullshit: otherwise intelligent people like Jeffery Zeldman end up supporting this, seeming to reverse their stance on web standards. In his post, Jeffery has proven to me that he will now live on his knees, forever drinking from the dripping cock of the beast.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've said it before, and I'm saying it again now, PROTEST.
If we all just stop fixing sites for IE, stop pandering to them, even go to the extent of stopping sites being viewable in IE, then the message will slowly get across. When I was freelance, I wouldn't optimise sites for IE, some clients even asked that it be un-viewable in IE.
Fuck Microsoft. If they can't make their browser support standards, we should just ignore them, and fuck the majority of people who use it, since when has the majority ever had a clue?
I'm sick to fucking death of this bullshit.

3:46 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Absolutely LOVE this blog, keep up the awesome work! :D

8:45 PM  
Blogger The Hater said...


Let's try a thought experiment. Say I stop spending hours working around countless examples of IE's defective fucking functionality. I just stop.

1. Things in my web application start breaking for customers who don't know any better than to keep using the piece of shit.

2. Customers come to me and ask why my code stopped working. Not why the browser stopped working, but why my fucking code stopped working.

3. I explain to them that they need to install a browser that doesn't suck ass.

4. They go to my competitor who doesn't create additional requirements on their IT department to support two browsers (since their own piece of shit intranet web apps require IE).

5. I either become a standards evangelist ignored by developers and vendors alike, or start a new career.

Fuck that shit. I hate IE, and I hate having to code around Microsoft's vague acknowledgement of standards, but I hate losing business more. Otherwise, I would never have had a reason to start this blog in the first place. I would have just said,"Fuck it, I quit."

12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i agreed. if i spend 2 weeks(14 days) coding, 9 days or more are spend for debugging for users who use the ... ^&*^%&%^&* IE browser!!. argh!

3:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm glad that you're speaking out against Internet Explorer. I'm sick and tired of its weird, confusing ways of rendering code. Many of my favorite sites look like crap in IE, but look fine in any other browser. Love the blog – Keep up the good work.

2:15 AM  
Blogger The Hater said...

Alternative Technology:

Thanks for the vote of encourgement. If I can just get life to fucking wait for a bit while I write, then I'll get the chance to keep this going...

7:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

sounds like a looser

11:47 AM  
Blogger benrr101_doesnotexist said...

As duncan said it's time for web developers to stop catering to the needs of IE and making everything standardized. Eventually people will have to stop using IE because so much is unusable in it.

And it's not just IE that sux, it's all of microsoft. Read more at:


11:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Perhaps it was our complaining or perhaps it was a reconsideration of its own interoperability principles, but Microsoft has decided to change its course on IE8 and will opt-in to its new standards mode by default."

By the way, I happen to agree with you about IE's past standards support, but I'm actually using IE8, and I think it's a step in the right direction.

12:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I did not read your entire post, because I am too lazy, and too pissed off @ MS and all their P.O.C. sofware. It feels lika everything they release is beta-versions. And then just post updates that come along... Like you say, they really have to get their head out of their asses and see to the real problems - standards.

It's like building a car with an even more powerful engine, but the rest of the car can barely keep intact.... god damnit I hate microsoft.

7:23 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Hi. I found your page because I searched on Google for "Fuck Internet Explorer".

Why? Cause IE always causes my projects to take twice as long, after I thought they were already done.

This was the first thing that came up, and I got a taste of you rage by the description Google provided.

So where am I going with this? Well, my friends, I simply want to say:


11:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Honestly, it should be illegal to ship out IE with Windows and not include a standards compliant browser. People like my parents use IE because it came with their computer. Now tonight I have to go and remove viruses because my dad went to the wrong website by mistake!
It's full of holes, it's full of proprietary standards, it's full of shit.

I spent 2 of 5 months programming my website to allow for IE6+ to work since 40+% of the fucking internet is still on IE6. Eventually I got fed up with the work-arounds and built a separate site for IE6 users and it's as ugly and half-assed as it gets with a warning at the top telling the IE6 users to move on or get off.

Now I don't know how the worlds largest software manufacturer is having so much trouble with standards compliance. IT'S NOT THAT FUCKING HARD!!! FireFox and Opera are doing it. Even Safari is almost there. I find it hard to believe that the army of idiot programmers M$ has can't figure this out. In addition, I can't quite understand why they're fighting it! Are they afraid they're going to lose ActiveX crap. How about they start programing for Mac and Linux!!! It's great that Java runs so fast on IE, but seriously, that's their only fucking achievement.

I have no choice but to program for IE, since 70% of my paying customers use IE. But I fight it every step of the way. HOWEVER, if 50% or more of the developers out there decided to boycott IE programming, I will too.

I'm waiting for the day that M$ loses the battle against Open Source. Because the day that IE wins the battle, I'm going to quit programming.

5:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

IE is my favourite browser. It bookmarks and browses better than others. I really like it, and I'm glad you do to.

8:05 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Show this to people who use IE:

11:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How sad is it that I am googling "Internet Explorer is a piece of shit"? Its really fucking sad! I cant even imagine how many days of my life are completely gone to debugging that piece of crap. If you put all designers together it must be thousands of years of humanity lost... lol

2:47 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"forever drinking from the dripping cock of the beast."

rofl. Hyperbole much?

6:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

lol - you idiots - ms will win the open source war - because people like to get paid.

open source developer makes something awesome - ms comes along "we would like you to join us heres lots of money and great benefits" - the the open source community are short one more developer - dont think it happens? think ring any bells? ward cunningham?

you are a bunch of whiners. deal with it. hell - the IE team is doing everything in thier power to make the browser more compliant and still not break all the sites in the world and you guys cry that its not enough. hell go and read those articles again. ie7 broke the web because you tards all thought you knew what you were doing when you added doctype to your sites - and then ie7 said "oh you know what you are doing - fully compliant rendering it is" but it turns out you freaks who claim to be standards zealots DID NOT EVEN USE THE STANDARDS YOU CLAIMED TO.

hey - how did you install firefox? oh, whats that - you downloaded it with ie... nice.

never seen so many people complain that they have to do thier job. "whah my job is too hard - I have to program to ie with 75% of the wolrd uses. whah whah. I have to make my stuff work for all the kids and grandparents who dont know how to install firefox and thunderbird... whah whah..."

fucking noobs.get a life.

the amazing thing is you script kitties are not anywhere near good enough programmers to work for microsoft. Jealous batards.

12:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hate IE! It sucks! Instead of using all those programmers to write and application THAT WILL FOLLOW STANDARDS the bastards leave it to us to sit there and fuck with their crappy application standards.

What a load. Don't they have enough of our money to make it work right yet!!

This cost our business tima and money. LOTS OF TIME AND MONEY!!

Is MS getting this yet? Hello? Microsoft? Are you fucking listening?

Obviously I'm having one of those IE bug weeks. Been trying to resolve the the same stupid issue with standard tags for three days now. Everything looks great in Safari, Firefox, Netscape.... It even works multiple versions numbers back in all of those. Just not IE.

6:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can see I'm not the only one that's going mental. Because of IE. Something that only need 1 line of code for any other browser but because of IE you have to add 20 lines of code to detect that it's IE!!! SHIT!!! Half the time is making browser sniffers!!

It just makes projects take longer. I'm really getting into AJAX, but having to get around IE's bloody standards makes it so much more of a pain in the butt. If IE just stuck to the way every other browser does things it would only take one line of code to declare the object. The big problem is that I have no choice but to code for IE as over 50% of web users run IE. The only reason they get such a share of users is that it's bundled with windows and your average user wouldn't know any better.

I'm so tempted to put this code into every site that I make.

<script type="text/javascript">
function detectBrowser()
var browser=navigator.appName;
if (browser=="Microsoft Internet Explorer")
x.innerHTML = "<h1>Bummer...</h1><h3>Aaaahhhh. Sadly you're an Internet Explorer user. I really feel for you. Due to Internet Explorer's poor design and lack of attention to web standards therefore putting strain on web developers. So all access is blocked for Internet Explorer users. Try considering an alternative such as <a href=''>Mozilla Firefox'</a>. Help make the internet a better place. Make the switch.</h3>"

<body onload="detectBrowser()">

But I can't. Or Could I. Hhhhmmmm....

3:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have spent a hour trying to get a div to align properly. I HATE IE!!!!! Now I am wasting time searching "IE is a piece of shit" on Google. Microsoft get a clue! Stop making us do extra work. I would be embarrassed to say I developed this piece of shit. How can the developers sleep at night. Now back to work fixing IE 6!!!

10:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, microshit is doing it's best, and they have bettered any famous criminals to date, short of the Bushyboy admin...........organized crime at its best, thats the way to define vista and ie.........but, alas, in amerca, we now support criminals all the time, just look at the bailouts as an example........
In reality, micrshit is run by a geek, who is wanting to get revenge on the world cuz he's mad and hates himself

7:56 PM  

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